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How accurate is vedic astrology for the serious sadhaka?

topic posted Fri, March 21, 2008 - 7:35 PM by  Unsubscribed
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The only way to overcome destiny or be insulated from it is to do spiritual practice. This is because destiny which is a spiritual problem can only be overcome by a spiritual remedy. However the effect of spiritual practice (sadhana) and religious rituals done to overcome a problem where the root cause is spiritual in nature is not reflected in the chart. Hence an astrological reading does not reflect the spiritual practice undertaken by the person.

For example, at birth if an astrologer detects an ancestor’s problem in the horoscope of a person and if the person does a ritual etc. then that defect is removed but the next astrologer will still read it the same way. From this perspective, palmistry is superior to Astrology as the changes are reflected in the lines on the hands. As an average person does not do spiritual practice in the true sense of the word, he is not really impacted by this inherent shortcoming of Astrology. But what about serious sadhakas who use astrology as a means for spiritual evolution?

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  • Vedic astrology is a useful tool for the sadhaka. What you have here is a valid view point. The use of astrology as a predictive tool is only one use. Vedic and other astrology also lends itself to analysis of the external influences( of the planets- upon aspects of ones personality or ego). This is an invaluable tool for ones spiritual practice. Since the aim of spritual practice is to get to the unconditioned mind so that the truth reveals itself, this helps reveal some of the influences that cloud our mind and prevent us from seeing the

    You can also see this site

    www.shreemaa.org where the Swamiji gives the mantras and methods on how to use this in your sadhana..

    AS for the future, once one is really established in sadhana, worry about the future falls away- the future reveals itself to you. You can still go to psychics or go to Naadi Jothidam( which is kind of allied to vedic astrology) which are dependant upon when you go with the question as opposed to your moment of birth. AND even vedic astrology is not just about mathematics and rules- its also about intuition of the astrologer- and it depends on which astrologer you go to.. I hope this is not too confusing. You can mail me if you want to discuss this further..
    • Unsu...
       
      No not too confusing at all, thanks for your reply and invitation to PM. Finding the right astrologer is a tricky practice in itself. Anyone can read the scriptures learn the rules, then make predictions/calculations based on what their intellect sees and interprets from the chart. But, what I've found through my study and research that a gifted astrologer is one to whom the planetary deities reveal their wisdom through meditation and worship. It's not enough to understand with our mind, but we have to be humble and open to thier teachings, otherwise we miss the boat and lead others astray.
      • hare rama krsna,

        Dear Bhakti,Namaskar.
        Vedic astrology is very accurate.But there are levels of astrology which is only revealed by Guru only when he /she finds worthy disciple.Now your question is about serious sadhaka and application of Vedic astrology.Can vedic astrology be applicable to the charts of person who are into spirtual practise.My answer is YES YES YES it can applied to the charts of sadhaks but i would definitely agree if you are saying that vedic astrology cant be applied to the charts of spirtual giants or to the ones who belong to the category of "SIDH.".......I also dont agree that anyone can read the scriptures and learn the rules and become an astrologer but yet the application part is only possible when there is Guru kripa..
        Hence your last statement is just a mere reminder of what the scriptures say that for a student of jyotish he/she must worship the panch devta and his ishta devta regularly in brahma muhurth as worshiping deity by the mode of japa,dhayana meditation and by agni -sacrificial fire enables one to connect spirtually with his deity and thus one can see subtle things and can say predictions which will eventually come true..
        MAY the light of mother kali shine on us....

        Regards-
        ady
        • Unsu...
           
          Lord Anonymous,

          Of course many many jyotishi's have examined the charts of spiritual giants, and their charts have revealed their divinity. I guess where I was realy going with this is for the average spiritual seeker. I didn't say average person, because the average person regardless of what culture he/she comes from is not willing to or even know the benefits of intense sadhana.

          With that said, the chart of an individual never changes, but the mind of that same individual can change thourgh life by ritual, mantra, puja, etc etc. So if one were to engage in intense sadhana to decrease the effects of karma, or beg with humility for the grace and compassion of God/Guru, then their karma would of course take a different direction. Hopefully in the form of reduced negative karma. Since the chart never changes, then how could an astrologer interpret correctly? intuition? God's grace, grace from the Navagrahas?
      • bhakti
        yes
        Hart Defouw talked about this in the recent class I took with him, and he mentions it frequently in his book.
        He says that one needs not only practice and more practice but the wisdom of their ishta devata
        to give the insight needed to clarify between the many different interpretations that each combination of graha,
        bhava, rais, yoga, etc....can give.
        • Unsu...
           
          Kalikat,

          Good I'm glad you brought this up! How do I find my Ishta Devata in my chart? I've been told that I can find it in the navamsa, but also that my guru or chosen deity is my Ishta Devata...regardless of the astrology. Which is true?
          • you know, i've been told that you look to the graha or bhava immediately before the atmakaraka in the navamsa to find the ishta devata. however, in my chart this leads to an empty 9H, which is scorpio - mars is in the 2H with exalted sun and venus. i've been told my ishta devata is a form of siva based on my chart ... kartikeya or soma? and yet i am a devout goddess worshipper, always have been.

            so, i'm not sure.

            i think what Hart means by ishta devata is more what you meant about inner (or outer) guru, or chosen deity.

            i did a google search and found this:

            ahimsazr1.wordpress.com/lectur...devata/

            Since the soul comes and leaves with dharma, Navamsa chart becomes crucial in understanding spirituality. 12th house indicates the exit from this world, so 12th house from Atmakaraka will show the “mask” God is wearing in the form of Ishta Devata. Ishta Devata can only come from Vishnu Rupa which is confirmed by Vishnu Gayatri in Rig Veda. Vishnu is Sarva Vyapakeshvara Devata and thus he is present everywhere in everyform, yet never represented by any form. Normally, Graha in 12th from Atmakaraka navamsa known as Karakamsa will indicate Ishta Devata. If there are no planets take the lord. This form of Vishnu will take and lure your soul towards final emancipation. There are other opinions on deciding Ishta Devata which I will leave for now on.

            Now, the main task is to analyze this rupa of God, and this graha in the chart. There is a difference whether this planet is malefic, benefic male or female etc. Classical jyotish text known as Chandra Kala Nadi calls this place Jivanmuktamsa, or the place where Jiva attains liberation. Since there are four types of moksha among which one is Jivan mukti, this has a specific meaning in a higher spiritual teachings. Ishta devata planet will behave as a God hand also in a more mundane levels, where we can see its favourable or unfavourable infleunce in certain areas of life. So, whether a person will go towards moksha or not is judged from this planet. Therefore it is very important to understand position of Ishta Devata in all 12 houses of the chart.
            • Unsu...
               
              This is very interesting to me considering that the deities that I connect with have changed alot, so I was looking for anwers in my chart. So according to looking in the navamsa, my Ishta Devata is mars in aries in the 9H.

              I don't know too much about Lord Mangala except that since chanting his mantras for the weak mars in my rasi, I've been crazy strong. But, I havn't connected much with Him otherwise...maybe mostly due to ignorance of His existence before.

              Thanks for the article, it was a good read. I always thought that the atmakaraka was an indicator of moksha...how one gets liberated. Still it makes sense in that same context if the atmakaraka contains the sins of the soul, then it's the Ishata Devata who guides us in finding liberation...then perhaps the idea of finding the Ishta devata in the navamsa has some merit if he/she comes before the atma karaka

              Cool
              • Bhakti--
                So It would be interesting to start Narasimha puja as a daily practice
                and see what happens after 40 or 80 days. Why not experiment?
                Murugan if you like Siva's family check out how they're different.
                Lastly there's Hanuman, who is an incarnation of Siva.
                They should each produce similar results but with different qualities.
            • Unsu...
               
              " i've been told my ishta devata is a form of siva based on my chart ... kartikeya or soma? and yet i am a devout goddess worshipper, always have been. "

              Isn't Kali a form of Shiva?
              • bhakti,
                wow, we both have mars in aries as ishta. thats cool.
                i don't know that it is mars himself that is the ishta devata. i remember hearing from someone....freedom? ... that each graha represents a deity and depending on the graha's rasi and/or bhava placement will determine the face of that deity. i believe the concept of the ishta devata is jaimini based......maybe someone else reading has more information on this topic.

                this page gives the ishta based on the rasi lagna....

                www.yournetastrologer.com/basic/b15.htm
                • each planet represents a visnu avatar

                  sun - ram
                  moon - krsna
                  mars - narasimha
                  mercury - buddha.
                  jupiter - vamana
                  venus - parasurama
                  Saturn - kurma
                  rahu - varaha
                  ketu - matsya

                  that is the "Visnu rupa" (face of visnu)
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     
                    This is easier to digest considering the former link is not based on the navamsa but on the rasi. But then why would a face of Vishnu be one's Ishta Devata?
                    • because the whole manifest universe is visnu / lakshmi.
                      • Unsu...
                         
                        Thanks for putting it into that context, it makes a lot of sense. It's interesting the different takes I hear from different astrologers, I've been told to pray to my guru as my Ishta Devata as well. I've been thinking of a way to ask this question, but it appears that I didn't have to work that hard :)

                        Is there a historical or traditionally accepted method of finding one's Ishta Devata in astrology besides what modern astrologers teach? When I hear so many discrepancies on a particular method it leads me to doubt its value.
                        • Namaskar everyone..

                          Heres what my guru taught me and i have farely applied this in many charts and have found good results.

                          the planet in 12th from karkamsa [ak in d9] represents the ishtadevta.[one who gives liberation]
                          the planet in 9th from karkamsa represents the dharma devta[one who helps us in fulfilling our dharma]
                          the planet in 6th from amk i.e.amatyakaraka will show the palan devta
                          the planet of bk ie bhatrikaraka will show the Guru devta .

                          Now our discussion is in the lines of ISHTA DEVTA...now all other deities will only aid us in reaching to our ishta...

                          there are few methods by which you can confirm the ID
                          1]jaimini rishis 12th from ak principle in navamsa
                          2] check the trines in rasi chart
                          as 5th house == will show devotion and mantra
                          9th house == dharma and the place of worship.

                          3] check the planet in trines to d20 lagna .

                          if the ishta devta planet is in the above position and fulfilling all the 3conditions then without a doubt a peron will be attracted to that particular deity....

                          If Bhakti permits then she could post her birth details and we can see some higher concepts including the role of Ishta devta and other deities..

                          The amsa shakti of the ishta devta in d20 helps us to a great extent in reaching to that particular deity...

                          DEAR BHAKTI,
                          if bk is connected to ID then praying to ID will definitely increase ones knowledge and also bring the guru in ones life....

                          guys and girls ,please keep this thread active..Thanks to bhakti for starting such a good thread...we can really discuss esoteric details of jyotisha.

                          May Ganesha shower his grace on us ..

                          REGARDS-
                          ady
                          • "if bk is connected to ID then praying to ID will definitely increase ones knowledge and also bring the guru in ones life"

                            >> Very true! In my case Bhatrikaraka and Ishtadevata are the same. I was advised to pray to Vishnu rupa of my ID, Lord Shani (Lord Venkateshwara) and now realize praying to him during his Antardasha is what helped me seek and bring Guru into my life. It is fascinating how these tid bits of jyotish pearls of wisdom can be corroborated in real life!
                          • Unsu...
                             
                            Lord Anonymous,

                            Lots of info, thanks!

                            "if bk is connected to ID then praying to ID will definitely increase ones knowledge and also bring the guru in ones life.... "

                            this is interesting, as my BK is mercury and ID is mars (according to jaimini rishis principle)....they are both conjunct by close degree in the 12H in rasi

                            "2] check the trines in rasi chart
                            as 5th house == will show devotion and mantra
                            9th house == dharma and the place of worship. "

                            Do you mean the triconal houses, or trines from what point, the AK?


                          • Unsu...
                             
                            Lord Anonymous,

                            "If Bhakti permits then she could post her birth details and we can see some higher concepts including the role of Ishta devta and other deities.. "

                            Sorry I did not get this info to you sooner. If you are still interested my birth details are as follows

                            November 21, 1974
                            7:05 am
                            Brooklyn, New York
                            USA

                            Scorpio Lagna 7 degrees or so

                            I would love to know what you think in regards to Ishta Devata
          • Bhakti,
            As a sadhaka- dont bother about your horoscope to decide who your ishta devatha is. This needs to be a love marriage- not an arranged marriage. Which ever devatha you fall in love with would be your ishta devatha.
            • Unsu...
               
              Durgaputra, yes I agree with this point. I am more led by the heart than I am by the mind/intellect. However, I'd like to see i there is any correlation between finding devotion in one's chart and where it lies in one's intuition. My lagna is in the anuradha nakshatra, and thus is related to Lord Krishna....my Satguru is a devotee of Lord Krishna and is believed by some to be His incarnation. I also have this devotional aspect of my personality. Astrology should be able to indicate where our devotions lie...it's an interesting study.
            • sorry to heavily disagree on this ...the complete guruparampara culture in sanatan dharma gives the right to reveal the ishta only to the GURU..only the satguru can reveal the real ishta ..

              however i wont take away ur credit for really giving a good view that which ever devta one loves can be one rupa or form of the ishta as the basic principle is
              |eko braham dwityo nasti||

              regards-
              ady
              • I must respectfully disagree. One does not need a Guru to have an Ishta devatha. Unless one has the luck to meet ones Guru before one has an ishta devatha, the Guru would not be involved. Kula devatha and ishta devatha can be there for all, regardless of whether they have a manifest guru or not.
                I would infact say that the Guru is the physical manifestation of ones own beloved ishta devatha, come to relieve one from the sufferings of creation.
                • Namaskar Durgaputra,

                  i am not interested to keep arguing on this as both are correct in our own ways but just an add to what you said Guru is the physical manifestation of ones beloved ishta devta -- very correctly said

                  as said by sri ramakrsna paramahansa that there is no difference between 1GURU 2GURUMANTRA 3ISHTA...
  • Unsu...
     
    Astrology is perfectly accurate, but imperfect astrologers are not.

    Somebody with a dedicated spiritual practice may have a more direct way of gaining knowledge of their path through prayer and meditation.
    • Very interesting topic this one!

      I personally believe for a sadhak and genuine one, whos whole aim and focus is sadhana, should be least bothered with jyotish. If one has to decide whether or not one should do sadhana based on what the natal chart says, then he/she is not a sadhak in the first place.

      Because sadhana and tapas is the path to that one knowledge which is beyond all knowledges, the core of the chausat kalas. If you see the circle of 64 kalas(arts) where jyotish also happens to be one of the kalas, obviously the highest and central position is atma vidya. That is infact the ONLY para vidya and compared to it everything is apara vidya including jyotish.

      Which is probably why all the greatest sadhakas across the world and at all times simply focused on the sadhana and not on whether their chart said so!

      The thing with jyotish is somewhat like the Hisenbergs uncertainly principle in physics. By it self jyotish is perfect but to get the information into teh conscious sphere we need teh medium of an astrologer. And is the imperfection. Just like in the Hisenberg's principle the exact postion and momentum of the particles can ONLY be known in a probabilistic way since the act of observation itself changes the reality to some extent however minute it may be, same way the act of the jyotishi or medium dilutes the knowledge accessed through jyotish because of the inherent imperfection of most jyotishis like us. Which is were intution comes into play.

      So if sadhana is ones aim, do not wait for what your chart says or does not say. Just do it.
      • Unsu...
         
        Interesting post Rajarshi,

        One of my best friends, a very advanced soul, has direct communication with God....as she understands him in the context of her chosen religion. She always criticizes me in my pursuit of jyotish because of what you have posted above. Why look to the stars when you can have all the answers from God himself, all you have to do is surrender and he will show you all you are ready to see. Instead, what we seek gets diluted through the eyes of the jyotishi. But even so, Sri Yukteswar was an advanced jyotishi.

        Interseting because I am struggling with the notion that so many differnt astrologers use diffrent ayanamsas which in turn calculate different varga (divisional) charts. It gets confusing when predictions are made using the divisionals which change so dramatically with even the slightest deviation of another's ayanamsa calculation.
        • HOW ACCURATE IS VEDIC ASTROLOGY.......

          The chart of the individual shows the blueprint given at birth - of past, present and future birth(s).
          For this present life, it shows the potentials we have as earned in previous incarnations: the talents; and the areas we need to develop: obviously we came here with work to do.
          Now how we are to utilize or not these potentials - in ethical or unethical ways - is up to the individual. A very competent Vedic astrologer can assess these things, I believe, but we're only humans after all, and there are degrees of unpredictability in the chart, also we are given the ability to decide for ourselves by our very individuality, it's called free-will, which is why nothing is written on stone. In that respect very evolved souls may change the course of their destiny.

          I wouldn't really care which is superior to which. I think Astrology is a very useful tool. But it must be used with respect and ethical behaviour. It should be a means to help others, to help them access their own power, to uplift. But really if one has found another spiritual field he/she is more comfortable in, as long as one has found his path.

          The chart is not static also. The birth chart obviously is very important and gives an indication of what's been imprinted on the psyche of the individual. Planets move all the time up in the universe and this is reflected in the chart. This is how astrologers use predictive techniques. As well as that, there are dasha systems, in which planets are given the rulership of a period of your life. Obviously they're not all going to be given the same amount of time of rulership and the order differ from one individual to another. These dashas show how our personal stories unfold. The chart may have great potentials but the transits and the dashas are going to tell if these potentials are going to be given a chance or not. Some great chances and some get less so great chances.

          Vedic astrology is very deep and very rich and needs a lot of study and a lot of practice for good accuracy.
          It is very accurate but it also requires a very good intuition also.
          • Unsu...
             
            "we are given the ability to decide for ourselves by our very individuality, it's called free-will, which is why nothing is written on stone. In that respect very evolved souls may change the course of their destiny. "

            This is a whole new can of worms if we are to discuss free will. I believe that we come into this incarnation with a certain destiny. That we are mean to meet certain people and experinece certain pre-destined events. Free will might be the choices we make and how we feel about what happens in life. Sometimes though I believe even the choices we make are pre-destined. I'm not such a believer in free will as I used to be. I think that we are destined to experience our karma, and that the will of God and the planetary deitioes are far stronger than we are...we are forced to experiece our karma.

            But then with spiritual practice and Guru/God's grace we can alter our karma...or better said God in his compassion for us alters our karma for us....haha!
            • Not wanting to make matters more complicated than they are, but I'm afraid free will does come into astrology :)

              The 5th house in the natal chart is considered one of the luckiest house (and its lord) because it is where we can react to our past lives and create new karma, "Kriyamana Karma" which is the karma of this lifetime. The 5th rules all self-expression, also tantra, sadhana, religious practices and deep knowledge of the spiritual side of life.

              I know Karma is being discussed in another thread.....
              But Kriyamana Karma is considered the most important of the three forms of karmas, because it is the karma that we make of our own choice and free will. If you're angry, how do you react? if you're being victimized, how do you react, and so on. This is the place (the 5th house) where we can improve the quality of this life!

              I do believe also that certain energies we are meant to experience - we chose to experience before taking birth - and certain events, certain people are to bring these energies upon us. But one person may choose to embrace the event and another may choose to go the other way. If this is part of the journey of this life, the energy will come back in a different form because yes, we are to face our karma, but also so that we are given another chance to learn and to improve.

              Too often people get into astrology with a lot of fears, but there are layers and layers to unfold before ever getting a clear picture.
              • If the question is whether vedic astrology is important for sadhana, it is and it is not. If sadhana and God realization is your aim, jyotish wont be able to help you any more than the millions of new age spiritual books you find in the market. I have till date, met a whole lot of very very learned and very very knowledgeable/experinenced jyotishis, but at the end of the day they were all just joytishis. It almost like meeting a bunch of people dedicated to a certain knowledge class. One may argue being a jyotishi one has a better knowledge and access to the shastra, yes they do, but so what? That is no prerequisite for God realization or even the genuine efforts for the same.. Reading a whole lot of shatras is good but only at the preliminary stage to get the mind interested in the higher truths. But there is much much more work to be done if those have to realized. We read a book, we read the gita or the chandi or the bible or whatever, those who are smart and have a general grasp over spiritual terms and philosophies will surely understand what is being said, but then understanding does not mean realizing. Understanding is a function of the logical mind, relaization is a function of the heart. And there is HUGE gap between the two.

                I once did a very interestinf exercise. I made the charts of some very very famous and spiritually elevated people like Lahiir Mahasyas, Swami Brahmananda (first disciple of Sri Ramakrishna Paramhamsa), Ma Saroda etc, and produced the same to whole group of jyotishis, some of them were even professors of jyotish and had bundles of jyotish degrees and experince of having seen and read thousands of chart..and no one could tell with certainty that these charts belonged to God realized men and women! Wwhere as the moment you inform them about the identity of these people, they will find out ten different reasons why the charts are so amazing obvious...And I was not amazed at the result to be honest. Yes jyotish does have deeper and deeper layers, but the catch is one can NEVER NEVER go into those layers unless one is sufficiently spiritually advanced and for that one has to do serious serious sadhana. And one who is doing really serious sadhana, whose dyan gyan everything has become one with his/her sadhana, will surely get glimpses of real spiritual experince and jyotish will fall off from his mind just like the way you take the warpper out before you put that chocolate into your mouth. So its a bit of a connundrum in its own. You go deep into sadhana, you wont need jyotish any more, and when you are not deep into sadhana, you wont get access to the deeper aspects of jyotish. Ever wondered why the jyotish classics still hold true even after so many thousands of years? Because the people who wrote them, parashara and jaimini were not jyotishis, they were Rishis who choose out of their infinite compassion for other less mortals to provide information on jyotish. Wwhta they wrote is what they "saw" with their inner light. They could mightly well have written classics on electrical engineering if they so decided.

                Yes Sri Yukteshwar Giri was an adept jyotish but that was not the focus of his life. His was a Yogi and jyotish was nothing more than a hobby. Infact if you ever happen to read of the less famous books on the lives of these Kriya masters, you will find sri Yukteswar often used to prescribe remedies to people without even so much as asking for their time of birth or anything. He could know simply by the power and knowledge which is the inherent strength of the soul. Jyotish is good and has its use in this universe just like any other field of knowledge. But to say that jyotish will help one is god realization, or forget god realization, even so much as to experince the movement of energy in the body which yogis refer to as pranothana, that would be living in a make belief world. So the bottomline comes down to actually sweating it out in real hard sadhana, jyotish or no jyotish.
              • If the question is whether vedic astrology is important for sadhana, it is and it is not. If sadhana and God realization is your aim, jyotish wont be able to help you any more than the millions of new age spiritual books you find in the market. I have till date, met a whole lot of very very learned and very very knowledgeable/experinenced jyotishis, but at the end of the day they were all just joytishis. It almost like meeting a bunch of people dedicated to a certain knowledge class. One may argue being a jyotishi one has a better knowledge and access to the shastra, yes they do, but so what? That is no prerequisite for God realization or even the genuine efforts for the same.. Reading a whole lot of shatras is good but only at the preliminary stage to get the mind interested in the higher truths. But there is much much more work to be done if those have to realized. We read a book, we read the gita or the chandi or the bible or whatever, those who are smart and have a general grasp over spiritual terms and philosophies will surely understand what is being said, but then understanding does not mean realizing. Understanding is a function of the logical mind, relaization is a function of the heart. And there is HUGE gap between the two.

                I once did a very interestinf exercise. I made the charts of some very very famous and spiritually elevated people like Lahiir Mahasyas, Swami Brahmananda (first disciple of Sri Ramakrishna Paramhamsa), Ma Saroda etc, and produced the same to whole group of jyotishis, some of them were even professors of jyotish and had bundles of jyotish degrees and experince of having seen and read thousands of chart..and no one could tell with certainty that these charts belonged to God realized men and women! Wwhere as the moment you inform them about the identity of these people, they will find out ten different reasons why the charts are so amazing obvious...And I was not amazed at the result to be honest. Yes jyotish does have deeper and deeper layers, but the catch is one can NEVER NEVER go into those layers unless one is sufficiently spiritually advanced and for that one has to do serious serious sadhana. And one who is doing really serious sadhana, whose dyan gyan everything has become one with his/her sadhana, will surely get glimpses of real spiritual experince and jyotish will fall off from his mind just like the way you take the warpper out before you put that chocolate into your mouth. So its a bit of a connundrum in its own. You go deep into sadhana, you wont need jyotish any more, and when you are not deep into sadhana, you wont get access to the deeper aspects of jyotish. Ever wondered why the jyotish classics still hold true even after so many thousands of years? Because the people who wrote them, parashara and jaimini were not jyotishis, they were Rishis who choose out of their infinite compassion for other less mortals to provide information on jyotish. Wwhta they wrote is what they "saw" with their inner light. They could mightly well have written classics on electrical engineering if they so decided.

                Yes Sri Yukteshwar Giri was an adept jyotish but that was not the focus of his life. His was a Yogi and jyotish was nothing more than a hobby. Infact if you ever happen to read of the less famous books on the lives of these Kriya masters, you will find sri Yukteswar often used to prescribe remedies to people without even so much as asking for their time of birth or anything. He could know simply by the power and knowledge which is the inherent strength of the soul. Jyotish is good and has its use in this universe just like any other field of knowledge. But to say that jyotish will help one is god realization, or forget god realization, even so much as to experince the movement of energy in the body which yogis refer to as pranothana, that would be living in a make belief world. So the bottomline comes down to actually sweating it out in real hard sadhana, jyotish or no jyotish.
                • well I see your point more clearly now. I thought you wanted to know more about Jyotish and us Jyotishi are only going to be willing to show you how important Jyotish is:)

                  A long time ago Jyotish was considered a sacred knowledge that could only be passed on to chosen ones. But these days Jyothish is widely accessible - and so the chance of meeting a really wise and deep Vedic astrologer are random. No offence to anybody on the forum !!
                  That's why with the example you gave, the jyotishi were not able to "recognize" such charts. Thing is, leading astrologers of our time wrote about such charts so I believe there are really enlightened astrologers out there, but very few.

                  Likewise I don't think astrology or anything can really help you with God's realization unless you are truly looking for it and doing in, in practical ways - yes through sweat and hard work.

                  Great topic though - thanks for bringing it up.

                  I think we should start a new thread on ID!!
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     
                    "Likewise I don't think astrology or anything can really help you with God's realization unless you are truly looking for it and doing in, in practical ways - yes through sweat and hard work."

                    If you really want God's grace then yes why bother with astrology. Just accept all that comes with His will and be grateful for it all, including painful experiences. Suffer through it all knowing that you are just burning off karma and progressing further towards the goal of Self realization. Only those advanced souls tired of Maya can do this, can appreciate all the pain that life offers as well as the "good"

                    I don't know anyone who can do this, not personally anyways

                    • Bhakti,
                      Sadhana is not the same as burning off karma. One can burn out past karma, create new ones and still remain as entangled as ever. Sadhana is waking up and going beyond karma. Awakening to ones true self which is beyong space, time and law of causation. Jyotish vidya helps in the beginning- again the aim is to go beyond it and ones karma- so long term- its immaterial what ones birth chart says. The grace of God and Guru which is obtained by Sadhana and the transfiguration of ones personality, burns the karma before the results are manifest. In such a case, for a true sadhaka, who is waking up to the true identity as the divine jyotisha is of no use.

                      Jyotisha is a tool- the ultimate result is the one which is given by sadhana.
                      • Unsu...
                         
                        "Sadhana is not the same as burning off karma"

                        I never said this.

                        But, I do agree with you on the fact that the purpose of sadhana is to wake up. Once we wake up we can choose whether to create good or bad karma. I don't know anything about going beyond karma, my understanding is that there is good karma and bad karma. I guess going beyond karma would mean to have earned neither good nor bad. But having said that, the only way I could imagine achieving that were to be to spend the rest of my life in a cave :)

                        But, I am merely playing devil's advocate when I challenging the effectiveness of jyotish. I myself am a believer in the art, and use it for my own sprirtual advancement as well as for others who I have been able to help recently who have the mind to listen and take heed. My own satguru has said that only when one is surrendered to the Guru, then there is no need for jyotish. But She has also said that there are very few who have that level of surrender
                • Namaskar every1,
                  a great discussion but all these discussion has a focus on 1]jyotish imp or not imp -these views are secondary as most saints and sadhaks do have a jyotish knowledge..TULSIDAS..However please dont isolate the statement as being a jyotish will make one a saint of that stature....2selfefforts in sadhana.. which is more important than anything...however sadhana is very important..but what is sadhana..can mere japa or dhyana or the nitya karma i.e regular worship can be said to be sadhana .....i am not trying to demean what people have discussed so far but just to add to the concocted discussion there is GURU missing here.You need Guru be it jyotish or be it specific path of yoga,tantra etc etc ...some may disagree on the above point of GURU but it is my personal belief that even a mere following of guru updesha is as great as doing sadhana,.Its only the SATguru who can give the highest knowledge - the one we call as Para Vidya.
                  Shadangadhi vedo Mukhe sasra vidhya ,Kavithwadhi gadhyam , supadhyam karothi,
                  Gurorangri padme manaschenna lagnam,Thatha kim Thatha Kim, Thatha kim Thatha kim

                  Sri AdiJagadGuru Shankracharya said even if has mastered the 4vedas and achieved the level of expertise in 6vedangas[jyotish] and can compose verses on poetry and prose BUT if his heart cant bow before the divine feet of Guru ..
                  WHAT IS THE USE OF SUCH A KNOWLEDGE .WHAT IS THE USE AND WHAT IS THE USE.?

                  Regards-
  • Unsu...
     
    Astrology is no different from palmistry. Your entire horoscope is on your palm. Even the most reputed palmist Cheiro, used to wear a talismn given to him by a vedic astrologer. When he lost it, all his predictions started going wrong.

    A good astrologer's reading will reflect spritual practices undertaken by the person. For example is jupiter is strong in benefic houses or aspects benefic houses under select combinations, when very strong saturn is in 4th or 5th house, it leads to an inclination towards occult sciences especially mantra shashtra. For being a good astrologer, it is also important to have the power of intution (in particular ketu gives this power) which only good hearted and strong souled can have.

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